"Right Here, Right Now" with Ariella Azaraf Schur LCSW

Julie Pernikoff: One okay. What were you saying?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: I'm just gonna say that it is so nice to be here. And for anyone listening, full disclosure, we have scheduled and rescheduled this approximately six times. So that is a real ⁓ sneak peek into mom life.

Julie Pernikoff: I one hundred percent I was gonna say the same thing. I think that like the fact that it was so difficult to schedule in the first place is a reflection of motherhood and like working, honestly. Yeah. So okay, wait.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes. Yes. So here we are post bath and bedtime. Can think clearly.

Julie Pernikoff: Yes. And literally. And to think what did you say? To think clearly.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: We can think clearly, yeah, it's like the the nighttime hustle.

Julie Pernikoff: There ever is a time that it's possible to think clearly. Yes. Yes. I would say like deep into the hours of the night, but yes, yes. Okay. This is very exciting. And also full disclosure, this is the very first episode. So like you're jumping in here with me. And I'm just so excited to have you here. ⁓ just as an intro from like my own self, Ariela and I know each other for a long time. Ariella was my advisor and NCSY ⁓ growing up and she was awesome. And now she is a psychotherapist. You're an LCSW, so you're a licensed clinical social worker, and you are in private practice and a speaker based out of New York City and New Jersey. And Ariella works with adults and emerging adults in navigating anxiety, depression, relationships, and boundary setting while supporting them in cultivating a deeper sense of self love through a lens of self compassion and self acceptance. Ariella is passionate about helping individuals. move through trauma and life's challenges while building emotional resilience and inner stability in her own journey into motherhood. She brings an added depth to her work, honoring the complexity of identity, attachment, and emotional growth across life transitions. Beautiful intro. That you did that was beautiful. Your background is just like phenomenal. I really, I really want to start with that.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: My heart.

Julie Pernikoff: Just your work background. And I mean, it's really all encompassing. But like if we could just even start with that, like tell me about who you are as a professional.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Okay. You wanna know like where I've worked type thing? Take you through my journey? Anything is comfortable.

Julie Pernikoff: Whatever's comfortable for you. I think like your outlook, what you you know, your outlook, what you do from day to day, what what that looks like for you.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Wow. First of all, kudos to Julie. This is such an important podcast. It's really an important topic, and it's something that we really need to talk about. We need to talk about. We're going to be using some trending words like transition and self-compassion and identity, but motherhood needs its own space. It needs its own space outside of pregnancy, outside of postpartum, but just the transition of becoming a mom. We need to talk about it. So really kudos to you and the podcast. Really be filled with a lot of blessing and success, and it should really touch people. And it should be a place that people feel really understood and validated. so a little bit about me, you know, of course, our own personal life journey informs the work we do and why we show up in the way we do. ⁓ so just a little note, I

Julie Pernikoff: Amen, okay. Thank you.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: trained out of social work school with teens at risk and teens in the Chasidish and Yeshivish community in Brooklyn at the Jewish board. I say it was like my residency boot camp being thrown into the most intense clinical situations. I was then trauma trained for many, many years and then I worked at a school for many years. And then I am now in my private practice and I really specialize in relationships and complicated relationships, ⁓ dating. ⁓ lot of grief work there's grief in transition and I myself actually dated for a very long time I had a very traumatic broken engagement and thank god I got married two and a half years ago and I was blessed with my baby's name is Rafael which in Hebrew means healing because he was my he is my healing that I had to go through so much of my own work my husband had to go through his own work to get us to this point so So I think it's important to say a little bit, you know, about where I'm coming from. So it's not just like this woman hopping on who had a baby and is a mom, but it's really fueled with so much understanding and pain and longing and really waiting for this time. So I really work with a lot of individuals, men and women, struggling with anxiety, with depression, being stuck in their head, being stuck in their lives, sometimes in a dating relationship or sometimes in their marriage. ⁓ And I have a unique lens as in the intro of just really trying to view all the transitions and all the struggles we move through with a lot of self-compassion, which we'll talk about, which we need in motherhood.

Julie Pernikoff: Absolutely. ⁓ my gosh. Thank you for sharing all of that. ⁓ it really is so helpful to hear the background, also like knowing where you are as a professional and also being able to hear the blend of your personal life here too is so powerful. I also just want to make a full disclaimer that I want you to feel comfortable to say whatever is comfortable, but also feel free to withhold whatever you need. I'm Definitely like I love when there's podcasts that are tell alls. I respect those and I also respect when people have boundaries and and they don't have to tell all.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: are a funny thing because and I have the had the opportunity of being on many and I'm always cognizant that somebody is listening to me on their way to work on the treadmill cooking for Shabbos, you know. So I appreciate you saying that. Yes, we I will disclose what's comfortable.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, good. I'm so glad. so you know, you mentioned that motherhood is in itself, in some ways, like it's can be separate from pregnancy and separate from pro postpartum, but it it truly, honestly, it all weaves in together in many ways. and tell me if I misunderstood that or not, but ⁓ t like talk to us about the transition and about the the birth, so to speak, of the mother from the beginning, from you know.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes. Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: Her she's be she becomes pregnant, she finds out she's pregnant. What's going on? Like what happens to the woman here?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes, so much. Yes. Yes, okay. Let's dive right in. I think there's a few aspects and I personally feel like there are things that I kind of wish somebody told me, but it's kind of also one of those things that you kind of have to experience it on your own. First of all, when a woman has a baby, we have to talk about hormonally what's going on in your body, right? That shift, the hormone drop, right? The whole, you know, if you're nursing, that that continues the dysregulation, the sleep leprosy. Observation, right? There's a whole transition of kind of needing to take yourself seriously, you know, of You're shifted into this world, which even if you waited a long time to come to, but you're kind of, you know, I remember giving birth and feeling like, ⁓ my God, this little life depends on me now. Like I am in charge and I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I don't know what I'm doing. I remember turning to my husband and saying, like, what what do I do? What do I do with this little? And I think it takes a minute to take yourself seriously. And I think that it's even more complicated when you're postpartum. And we'll talk today a little bit about postpartum. Depression and anxiety because it's normal and it's not scary and there's no shame in it, and we just need to know the signs, which we'll we'll get to. But I think the whole idea of being patient with yourself and really normalizing, because it's also overwhelming, right? You have this crying baby that's depending on you. If you're nursing, you have to figure out how to latch. Do I have enough milk? How do I get enough milk? Right.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: You get your first diaper rash, you freak the freak out, right? You text your pediatrician. There's so many things that come up that I know for me, I had this sense of like, why don't I know this? Right? Like I'm professional, I'm capable, but why don't I know this? And I was so not gentle and compassionate with myself of taking a step back and saying, Hold on, this is all new for me, right? And even taking a step back and educating myself around what's going on in my

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: body right this hormone shift is really really intense you feel things much stronger your your body is trying to find its balance again and at the same time and I I pause me at the same time right you're trying to work through all of this with your spouse so when you're deprived right you're dysregulated you're not your best self you're fighting with your husband right you may have different opinions on how to do certain things as parents and

Julie Pernikoff: Yes.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: trying to get to know each other in that way. And I think the word that really comes to mind is that it's the need to kind of like slow down. You know, when you have different versions of yourself, like I'm talking now, but at the time, like now I can look back, my baby is 17 months old, but now I can look back and say, hold on, I wish that I was telling myself that then, right? Of slowing down and being compassionate and reminding yourself that you've never been here before. So you don't know exactly what to do and that's okay.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Mm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's the gr that's a great line. You don't know what to do and that's okay. You don't know exactly what to do. You have a pretty you have a you have a framework, like you're exactly what you said, like you're a professional, you are a you know, a s an established human, you know some things, but it's like those curve balls that are kind of like, ⁓ my gosh, wait, I didn't expect this part.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: You know, people say, you know, mother's intuition. Now, yes, mother's intuition is super strong. But then when you're still trying to take yourself seriously in this new role. It's okay that it's not fully developed yet, right? There's a certain amount of healthy anxiety. When we hear anxiety, people like get so nervous. But I really think it's important to normalize that an a healthy amount of anxiety is okay, right? Because that's really what's guiding you to make sure, okay, is everything okay? That doesn't really seem right. Maybe I should run this by the pediatrician, right? Maybe consult with, you know, Chat GBT if it's not too, you know, emerging.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm. ⁓ that's such a great topic.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: But right, like cultivating that mama gut does take time. I don't think that it's there right away because I do think that there's a transition of you needing to fully lean into being a mom and trusting yourself.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting because you're using the phrase healthy anxiety. And like also what's amazing is that so much of this can be in some ways generalized or universalized to other areas of our lives in some ways, like learning curves basically, or ⁓ you know, the healthy anxiety piece. Like it makes sense in some ways, let's say with like OCD, it makes sense in some ways to be nervous about certain things, but you don't want it to get too far. ⁓ but At the same, you know, where it becomes dysfunctional. But it, you know, so it's kind of like, do we want to call this healthy anxiety, or do we want to call this like what you were saying, intuition, like a mother's intuition, a mother's maybe it's awareness? because I I I think some I think sometimes also like with moms, ⁓ there could be because they are also ⁓ women, there could end up being sometimes even like a gaslighting of like, don't worry so much, it's okay. But like you wanna toe that line, toe that, you know, find that balance between you're kind of worried or you're being aware versus like, you know, you're taking it too far. But you need to always be taken seriously, you know, when you're trying to advocate for your child. So it's

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Well the way that we really differentiate technostically is if the Anxiety or the depression is really impairing your functioning, right? So postpartum depression, you know, when you really can't get out of bed and it's more than just like feeling a little blue or just randomly crying, but you're really feeling depressed, you're having a really hard time connecting with your baby, or anxiety, you're having these like obsessive, ruminating, looping, spiraling thoughts. That's when we when I think we need to normalize it. That's when you need to talk to a professional and you need to get that support. You need support in general in transition to motherhood. need your you need your support system, whether that's, you know, I know for myself, there's this group of moms, and we have this WhatsApp chat, and we've all become really close. We all had babies at same time and certain people were added to the group. And it just like there are people, like even to this day our babies are like you know, seventeen months, we're all the same age and it's like a connection. But then you reach out and it's like, Does your baby do this? My baby just did this and then they're back, ⁓ yeah, for sure. My baby just did this. It's like okay, I'm normal. But you need that, you need your people.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: You know, maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a sibling, maybe it's a best friend who has kids, you know, older that have been here before, but you need your people and you also need to be very honest with yourself when the depression or anxiety has become beyond, you know, what's normal or what's like helping you.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. I first of all, the WhatsApp chat like universe is unbelievable. I really have like tapped into it as a mom and I think it's so amazing, not just for me, but for really so many people. ⁓ so I'm glad you brought that up. but I I also I wanna ask you something and it like veers into the personal space a little bit. So feel free again to answer as you wish. But what are your thoughts on becoming a mom, you know, later? You know, some some people don't want to say late, later, earlier.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: At at the right time.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Okay. I made paperwork at fully said geriatric pregnancy. We can we can own that. Yeah. Wow.

Julie Pernikoff: ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ my gosh. I'm wondering that because like who's in your WhatsApp chat? You know what I mean? Like

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes. Yes. Let's talk about that. This is personal, but I I feel like it's important to share. You know, when you've had so many years single, doing your thing, going to whatever equinox classes I wanted to go to, happy hour here, right? Going on this day, going on that day, going to this event. There's this freedom that you get accustomed to, but you're also very deep inside longing for settled, right? Your Nishama, your soul wants to find your person and wants to find your purpose. For me, I don't think everyone has this, but for me, I always wanted.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah, right.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Be a mom. I'm super nurturing. I'm loving. Yeah, I did NCSY. My keep my my NCSYers were like my people, my kids. I was a big camel chaval person. Like I was always nurturing, and I always wanted this. And when you become a mom, right, and you're the miracle, it's a miracle. Everything about having a baby getting pregnant is a simple miracle, right? When it comes. I think we also have to make space to normalize that can also be very hard when you have this little life dependent on you, right? Suddenly your life becomes speeding. I joke that my life was like doing math, right? Like from nursing or from changing diapers or from nap time, like four hours since you last woke up. What is like, you know, Googling, you know, what is the wake hour for this? What is the wake window? And it's it's it's a lot. And I I I do think there were times that even now, you know, there are times that it's like ⁓ I just wish I could go whatever gym class I want to go to. You know, now I do like a quick workout video when he's napping with a monitor next to me, and I have to kind of, you know, calculate time in that I'm gonna shower and get dressed until he wakes up. How long does he get a nap? I don't know. Right? Like all of that suddenly, everything was so as still is so calculated. I'm not complaining, but I think it's important to know that when you go from all those single years to literally doing whatever you want whenever you want to then transition transitioning into you know making dinner for when you and your you know when your husband comes home and making sure that the baby has food right these little humans my toddler eats three meals a day and he gets sick of certain things I have to get you know creative like you always have to be on your feet you know and you always have to be very aware and thinking of the next step. You know, do I have enough diapers? Is laundry done? And that's something that can be really hard for people that are transitioning from having so many years of freedom.

Julie Pernikoff: Absolutely. Absolutely. You really said it. And this is the amazing part about conversations. Like I was thinking in one direction and then you brought it in another. And now we're gonna merge it and blend it in another way too. It's it's a great point. ⁓ first of all, it sounds like you did a lot of fun things over the years, so I think that that's awesome. Like you went to Equinox, you went to Happy Hour, like that's awesome. ⁓ but I'm I'm also wondering in addition.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: That's a whole nother conversation, how to build your life and how to live your best life single, but that's not for now. Yes.

Julie Pernikoff: That is fantastic. We can just hold space for that because that's really important. but what I'm wondering about also is like ha handling the is the word like discrepancy between maybe a new mom's age in one stage versus another mom who's at the same stage with that seventeen month old baby, but maybe she's ten years younger. So kind of navigating that I'm also wondering about.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes. Mm. You're saying that they may not know from anything else, like this is just their life?

Julie Pernikoff: no, I actually wasn't thinking that. I'm thinking more like maybe ⁓ the feelings of you know how how different it is that like coming into it later versus them starting it earlier and then finding that same, you know, the great equalizer is gonna be that you both have a 17 month old, but it is a different it is coming from different places. Judgment or no judgment, it's coming from different places. So like kind of navigating that.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah. Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's interesting how you can ask a question that someone answers in a different way, but I think somebody that got married much younger and then they have a baby is kind of like what I was saying. I feel like that's just what they know. You know, I kind of look back and I'm like, whoa, I got to like travel to all these places and have all these cool experiences, you know, and now like not like I'm over it, but like I'm settled. I think somebody that got married younger, yeah, I think sometimes that must be hard to feel like they never had that, you know. know experience of being able to go out when they want and to do what they want, you know, that it's it's a very different life. I think about I think I know a lot of girls, you know, married with with young babies. In the WhatsApp chat, I think we're all in our 30s. I don't think anyone is much younger than that. But you know, I have a lot of people close to me that are in their young 20s that, you know, are in the same timeline. And it's interesting because in one way it's like we're so connected because we're going through the same thing. It's the same

Julie Pernikoff: Over.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: postpartum journey, it's the same sleep deprivation, it's the same, does your baby do this? My baby does this. But I guess what what what in terms of what you're asking is it's probably very different when this is kind of like the only life you know.

Julie Pernikoff: Wow. Wow. Yeah, I really, I really hear you. That's a really different perspective than I was kind of looking at it. And I think that's the amazing thing about conversations. We can bring in different perspectives. I think that it's I think that well, it kind of depends on where you're coming from. You know, high school, ⁓ seminary, college, what the trajectory is. And so in certain trajectories it's gonna be that people get married younger, so ⁓ and then have a baby earlier.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: How did you see it?

Julie Pernikoff: So to speak, early, late, whatever it is, you know, like let's say in the early 20s. So then when there's someone in their 30s, then it just the question is like, are they behind or are they ahead? You know, like what you're saying about what you you're right on time, and that's and the thing is is that everybody is is part of that motherhood identity shift, no matter what. They're just approaching it from a different age and kind of stage.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Hmm. You're right on time.

Julie Pernikoff: But what you're mentioning about the settled piece and having been able to travel beforehand, I think probably is extremely beneficial to some people and maybe a big challenge for some people that didn't get a chance to do that. Or maybe they become unbelievable at traveling with a baby. Like I you know, I don't know. That's a whole other a whole other a whole other

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes. Either way, yes. I can't imagine traveling with a baby's a whole different. I mean, we've done it, but I see these people that go to these exotic places and I'm like, how? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's also personality. That comes into motherhood a lot also. It's like your threshold of what feels overwhelming. You know, for instance, I have never taken my baby on a night flight and just like not interested. So during the day, during his nap time, like it feels very safe.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: And I think that's something that's also like important as moms to know, like What is good for you? You know, what what for other people, like, you know, it's like, ⁓ whatever, they'll sleep when they sleep, it's not a big deal. That's another piece. I don't know, we could veer into that of like schedule. You know, I feel like I've even just within like family or friends, it's like seeing other people's flow, you know, of like their hard no's or they're non negotiables. Again, I'll use myself, you know, like we're very into bedtime and in his crib, you know, at the same time it's changed.

Julie Pernikoff: Okay. Yeah. Yes.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: But having proper bath time, like I really don't think I've really missed any bath times. Like that's for me, right? Every mom needs to find, like I know when my baby is well fed and bathed and in bed in his crib with my whole routine of like moisturizing and socks and clean pajamas, then I know I feel settled. Right. And it's like frazzled and we're on the way back somewhere and he falls asleep. Not that it's a rigidity that I have, but I think it's a way that I have found to find calm.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: in in in creating a schedule for him.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. So you mentioned the word settled a f a few times even. So it sounds like it's something that it's it's honestly like a huge piece of things, I think with motherhood. And it sounds like with yourself, like being settled is something that is important and that's gonna look different for everybody. There's gonna be times also where, you know, a mom is so incredibly unsettled from this experience. What would you say, you know, as a professional and as a a person to that mom who is so just everything is

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Hmm.

Julie Pernikoff: you know, there's ⁓ what what's the right word? I guess like dissonance, just completely out of black. How can she find that saddle again? 'Cause you know, you're we talk about community, you know, and finding your people. What what does she do? Where does she go?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah. Yeah. That's a very good question. I honestly think the number one thing is to look at your physical space. My postpartum was so challenging. We were living on the Upper East Side. And if you think about it, it's beautiful, right? My husband moved in when we got married, and I was blessed with a baby quickly after that. And it was very cramped. It was like really, really tight. If you think about it, it's beautiful. Look at the braca that was brought into my apartment, right? It started with just me and then it expanded. And right at the same time, it was really not working for me. You know, part of my I think why my postpartum was so challenging was because there was nowhere to move. And we moved to Keneck when my baby was seven months old to a two-bedroom. I got a car. You know, I laughed, like I I delivered at Cornell and we took an Uber home. I'm from Chicago. My mom was like, Are you crazy? Like, please let us rent a car. I'm like, no, it's four blocks away. Now thinking back, I'm like, I don't know how the heck I got an Uber after I delivered a baby two days old. You know, but it's kind of like the norm. But I would really say to a mom that's overwhelmed, look at your physical.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: space and be very honest with yourself. Right?

Julie Pernikoff: Mm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Space is our mental health, right? When our house is messy, your mind is cluttered, right? When things aren't put away, when things aren't clean, it's hard to think clearly. It's hard to properly work. So I would really say to first look at your physical space around you, right? Is it organized? Is your is your baby's room organized? Do you know where things are easily? Right? Can you easily cause I feel like so much with babies also is like constantly taking count, like do we have enough diapers? Do I have enough wipes? Right? Yeah, that's a hard yes for Julie. Do I have enough lotion? It's all do I have milk? Do I have enough formula? All of this. It's like you're constantly taking count. And when there's an order, you know, and there's a seder to things, when there's an orderly organization, it really, really helps your mental health. So first look at your space.

Julie Pernikoff: Point. That's great. Yeah. Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: And then second of all, I think you have to really ask yourself if you're getting the support you need, right? Like, do I need to find a therapist? Do I need to find a support group? Right? Do I need to find another mom friend? Like I think what happens for a lot of moms is they're lonely, not only in the journey of becoming a mom, but it's lonely, right? If you're not working or not working as much and you're in the house with the baby, you need social connection. You need to check yourself. So do you need to get out to a library class? Do you

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: You need to, you know, get out somewhere, go on a walk. You have to really, and I don't mean this in like a self-care way, but you really have to check yourself and ask, am I doing things? You know, am I eating? Or am I eating the scraps that my baby's eating? Or am I taking a minute, put my baby in the bouncer, whatever, turn on, you know, more ester, that's our favorite. Like, are you doing something to take care of you? Are you making yourself an omelet? Are you eating well?

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: as their movement. You know, it's like funny. I would always I I hated the line like sleep when your baby sleeps. Like really? Really? Do you know what I want to do my baby sleeping? I want to brush my teeth. Maybe I want to make a coffee. I'm definitely not going to sleep, right? Like I remember people said that to me and now looking back I'm like what? But all of this to say is find ways to take care of yourself also because this makes me emotional to say but it's almost like you can miss old versions of yourself.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: We have to really, we have to really normalize it. You can have this incredible blessing that you've waited for. And you could really miss versions that existed way before being a mom.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Absolutely.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: And that's also not talked about enough.

Julie Pernikoff: Absolutely. Tell me a little bit more about that 'cause that's definitely that's definitely a new perspective.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah. Well I think that In the world of all transitions, right? Somebody who's newly married, right? You're holding both at the same time, right? You're holding this blessing of like I found my person, and you're really missing your friends. You're missing girls night out, you're missing coming home to an apartment full of girls, right? And you're so happy you're married. So both exist at the same time. And I think that the same in motherhood, right? It's like you're holding on to this blessing and this thing that you've waited for, and you can miss other versions of yourself, right? Maybe you miss

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: How you were with your friends. Maybe now all you talk about, like you're becoming a mom has become your entire identity. And maybe you're hearing yourself talk and you're like, What the heck? Who have I become? Like, why is this all I'm talking about? It's true though. I have a lot of clients that I've seen over the years that really feel this way, that it's like they've lost themselves in some way. You know, there's a lot of fluctuation with your body. That's a whole conversation in itself, and not really recognizing the

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: person that you're looking at in the mirror of like who is this person, right? Like I don't even recognize myself anymore. And that could be really challenging. So what I mean by missing old versions is again it's like holding both. It's holding space for being so grateful, right? That I'm a mom and that I've got in here and really missing parts of my old self, whether it's the freedom or whether it's the old me that could talk about other things. I wasn't sleep deprived, right? It's missing that.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. How how is your sleep?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Now, yeah, I don't want to give it a

Julie Pernikoff: Okay, we don't have to talk about it. Some people don't mention it by the way.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Okay. That's okay. He sleeps now. Thank God. He did but we were just home in Chicago and the new environment was hard. And Friday night I felt like we were back in Newborn. He did not sleep for a minute. So that was really challenging and the new space and if he's in our room. But that's part of what I'm saying, right? It's like when you set your baby up for success, like with all the usuals, and then they are in the room cozy, you know, as their toddlers, like they're their own little people. They know what's up. They know when they're in a new place. ⁓ but our sleep now.

Julie Pernikoff: ⁓ Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: ⁓ thank god is good.

Julie Pernikoff: Okay, good. Thank God. I know there's some people but I've heard before, they don't they don't talk about it. They're like, I don't want to talk about the good, I don't want to talk about the bad, I'm not gonna talk about the sleep. It is what it is. ⁓ so

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah. It's very triggering by the way, talking about your baby's sleep for some moms is very triggering. Because then you compare, why isn't my baby sleeping? What am I doing wrong?

Julie Pernikoff: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I have to ask you, I have a I have a burning question before we move into the next thing. Talk to me a little bit about feeding. Because I think, you know, you were mentioning you were mentioning about math and the wake windows and the hours. Talk to me a little bit about just that adjustment feeding, you know, in the beginning, whether it was formula, breastfed, and then now you're talking about meals and like a a little teenager who has likes and needs and wants.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: ⁓ my gosh. Yes. ⁓ my ⁓ my gosh, yes. Okay, so I personally nursed him for the first seven months of his life. ⁓ sleeping was really challenging. My husband

Julie Pernikoff: My phone started ringing. So sorry, I don't know how to turn that off. Okay, go ahead.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Okay. My husband, who's a digital marketer, is very into the analytics of things and he begged me, please pump so we could see what he's getting. Like he just wasn't sleeping well. And nursing is very anxiety provoking. I was just talking to my friend who just had a baby. It's like he don't know how much he's getting. I remember I had this app that was like a timer and I would like obsessively like pause, play, pause, play, pause. Like on ⁓ when I was nursing, like on each side to know how long you nursed for, but he would fall asleep and then I have to wake him up. It's really, really challenging nursing.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah. What app were you using?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: ⁓ my gosh. I don't even remember.

Julie Pernikoff: ⁓ not not like that it's a plug or anything, but like people love their nursing apps.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: ⁓ I don't it was so long ago. I have to look. Wow.

Julie Pernikoff: Okay, good. Good. Don't e no don't even bother.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: It was 10 months ago at this point. Yeah, he's 17 months. I'd have to look. I don't remember at all. That's so funny. How funny? It could be such a big part. And then it's like a blip. ⁓ my god. Sometimes it's funny in this mom group, someone's like, does someone know how old was your baby when you took one hand out of the swaddle? I'm like, ⁓ my God, please God, next time around. Like, I need someone to remind me because I don't even remember. But back to the game. No, like when you take one hand out of the swaddle, do you ever do that? And then like both hands out of the swaddle.

Julie Pernikoff: That's thing to take one hand, not just not the No, I thought it was just both at the same time. Okay.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: ⁓ yeah, I don't know. People have different things. See? See? Anyways, back to feeding. So at first I was I was nursing and then my husband really begged me to to pump so we could see like what he was getting. And then he started sleeping really well when when I was pumping. But it was hard for me, if I'm being honest. It was really hard for me because that the nursing connection is like so important, you know, and it was really important. I remember being super sick. I think I had like the neurovirus and I like was still nursing with a mask on, I remember. ⁓ and it was so important. No, more that it was so important to me, not like amazing, like I really loved it, but it was also very challenging because there was a lot of anxiety around, am I producing enough? How much is he getting? It was very stressful.

Julie Pernikoff: You're amazing.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: so then we started supplementing with formula a little bit. And the truth is once I stopped nursing, which was a journey to wean and to, you know, let the milk go.

Julie Pernikoff: Absolutely.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: It was really better for my mental health. I felt very relieved. Yeah. Formula was just easier in a way, you know, it's something you always have to have and filtered water. But it really yeah, it was really much less anxiety provoking for me. Because nursing also you have to be mindful of like what you're wearing and you have to go to a separate room. I remember making plans, Julie, being so challenging. Like how my now with his naps, like you work it out, you know, and I don't want to go too far because I don't want him to fall asleep in that car because I messed

Julie Pernikoff: Really?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: up his sleep at night. But in the beginning, the first like little bit, you know, I don't know, first I don't know, eight months of life, it's very, very anxiety provoking. Like how do I leave, you know, if I have to nurse and where will I go? And he has to eat at this time. It was really challenging.

Julie Pernikoff: Absolutely. It's the math. It's just even just a little recap of that and what you said before. The it's the mom math, as I've that phrase I've heard before, and what you're talking about, you know, the calculating of the hours and the wake windows. And then it's also the nursing and your space. Because what you mentioned that you would go to another room. Some people somehow are able to nurse in public. It's like an acrobatics. It's even aside from being comfortable or not, it's like it's complicated. And then, you know, finding a space to do it.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: ⁓ yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: So absolutely.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Very different comfort levels, yeah. And then there's the whole piece I don't know if you want to go into all the feeding, but then there's a whole piece with trying allergens, you know, that's really anxiety provoking for people too. Of like what if he has an allergy and then giving them real food, right? And choking and I remember salad starts, that was a good app that I used in the beginning that it helps you really see like what, you know, this food and then for this.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: age, how do I cut it up? So that was really helpful. And now in his toddler zone, ChatGPT is my best friend giving me menu ideas because I need to constantly switch it up.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. gosh, absolutely. And I know, I know I I said and I'm and I'm very aware that like I want this to be a real space that we can get to know you. I am I'll disclose just a little that I I do have my own baby and we are very much in the solid starts area or or you know arena and and that that introduction it's scary. The allergens all of that very scary ⁓ and also amazing no ⁓ amazing too

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: It is very warm. Sorry.

Julie Pernikoff: 'Cause it's you know, it's cool to see them eat food, but it's scary.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: It's very real. I think we have to also normalize that because you're responsible for this little being, right? And it's very, very scary. It's scary when it's scary when you're not sure how they're gonna react to something. Or it's scary when they cough for the first time and it's like, ⁓ my gosh, is he choking? Is he okay? I don't know. It's really rough.

Julie Pernikoff: Absolutely. And I think that brings us back to that that phrase that we used before that you said before, healthy anxiety. But then also, you know, being it's really being aware. You're being responsible. That's what you're doing, which it sounds like what you're saying is like it's understandable to be nervous. I I really want to bring us into this this final chapter, I think, with our with our space of talking, even though I like I feel like we could talk for such a long time and we still we still have more time.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: But I also want to be aware of your time because you're amazing. And I'm sure also you work all day and you're probably tired too. but I I I I really appreciate you being here. I want to ask you about how it affects a marriage and and how, you know, because we're talking about all these things almost as if in some ways it's like in a vacuum. Like we are trying things with our babies. Like you are trying something with your baby, but really, you know, you mentioned your husband is like. Can you try pumping? There's another person in the picture. And he may not have birthed the child, but he's right there with you, ideally. So talk to me a little bit about, you know, that experience and and also your experience as a professional, seeing that the ups and downs and the challenges with that and and the changes.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes. Yes. This is so important. This is really important to talk about. And I'll speak both personally and as as a as a therapist, you know. I think that you as you grow in your marriage, right, you really get to know your spouse on a different level once you have a baby, right? Once you experience pregnancy and birth and postpartum and adjustment, right? You really get to know each other on a much deeper level. And it's really, really challenging. Let's just call It as it is. It's very trying on a marriage. First of all, I do think that men need more education of what postpartum is really like for a woman because we can look like, okay, you have a house together, we're going grocery shopping, we're making dinner, we're taking care of this baby, but there's so much going on internally. I actually remember sending, I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, but it's part of a

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: being married to a therapist, I sent him, I sent him like articles on postpartum to help him educate himself around what's going on for me hormonally. and when you're sleep deprived for me, I've had many unproud moments, many. When you don't have proper sleep and sometimes no sleep at all, right? And when you're not just nursing but also bottle feeding, you're constantly up, right? The baby has to eat every few hours and your body is trying to recover, right? And you're you have to be up and have energy for this baby, and it's extremely challenging. And you aren't your best self, right? You're you have a shorter fuse, you're impatient, you are dysregulated when you don't have sleep. That's in general, and you're not your best self, you're not as patient with conversations, right? You're not as patient with your spouse. And not that it's an excuse because we always have to work. I always say that sometimes we become emotionally lazy with family members, and if there's going to be one relationship. to show up as your best self to constantly do the work. It's your marriage. But but

Julie Pernikoff: Mm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: The husband needs to have a little bit of an understanding and a little bit of a pass. Not that you could just lash out, but an understanding of what that's like. And I actually remember sitting with my husband and saying, I need you to ask me, how can I help? Right? Even if it's obvious to us, ladies, right? Like spiritually, actually in Kabbalah and in Hasidis, we learn like women see details. We could see the the the pan out needs to be put away. We could see there's issues in the sink.

Julie Pernikoff: ⁓

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Need to be washed, right? We see details. Men are very literal. They need to be told this is what needs to be done. But sometimes that's hard as a woman, right? Again, as you're as things we mentioned, you're constantly thinking what needs to be done next. What does the baby need? I need to get the oven, ⁓ dinner out of the oven, and you need help. So

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: I have a dream one day to write an article or I don't know some type of small book for men truly about how to show up for their wives postpartum. And I think one thing they I think one thing they could do is to learn how to say how, honey, how can I help? What needs to be done?

Julie Pernikoff: I think that's great.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Do you know what that's for woman postpartum? You can wash the bottles, right? That have bottled that have packed piled up in the tub, right? You could give the baby a bath. There's so many things. So I think, I think first of all, it's important to really work on your communication and to own when you weren't your best self, right? Because like John Gottman, he's the guru of of the Gaumman Institute, he's a guru of couples work. And he says that the the power is really in the repair and the redo.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. ⁓

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: ⁓ Right. That when you show up as your when you when you when you don't show up as your best self, when you lash out or when you speak unkindly, right, there's always room for a repair and a redo. And there's a lot of that in navigating postpartum and sleep deprivation and maybe sometimes not always being aligned on what you see as a crisis with the baby. Or as you see as urgent and they see as totally fine. You know, I joke like my husband is good for my nervous system because he's so chill. You know, and sometimes that's hard, right? When I'm like, take this seriously, this is important, you know. Sometimes he could be the barometer of like calm. And then sometimes it's like, no, I feel something's wrong, right? And how can we navigate this and how can we help each other come into our confident parent selves? Because this is new for both of us, right? And

Julie Pernikoff: Mm. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let me ask you something practically. how how can, you know, a young mother, an experienced mother, a seasoned mother, it's gonna come in every stage. I refuse to believe it's just gonna be with the first baby. How can a woman you know, communicate and advocate for herself in a moment like that where it's like, this is serious? And the husband maybe is like, not a big deal. How can they go about that? She's got that intuition. What can she do?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Let's see. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. My Yeah. My favorite my favorite four words when trying to set a boundary or trying to confront or express yourself to someone is saying it's hard for me when. It's hard for me when.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: You don't take me seriously, right? It's hard for me when you dismiss what I'm trying to share with you. It's hard for me when you come home and you sit on the couch and you don't ask me how you can help, right? Because when you start a conversation with you, you always come home and sit on the couch. You always diminish what I'm saying. You always dismiss what I'm worried. Then it's like, all right, let's get ready to fight, right? That's like, but when you say it's hard for me, you're putting it on yourself, but you're still very clearly saying. it's hard for me when you do certain things. It's much lighter, it's softer, but you're still expressing yourself. Because the problem is when women, and I've seen this a lot, when women don't express themselves, they swallow, swallow, swallow, and guess what? That's when resentment builds.

Julie Pernikoff: Well Mm. ⁓

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: And then it comes out, you know, it's kind of like a soda can. We used to do this at Mosheva. Like you shake it and then you throw it and it explodes. That's what happens when you bottle it, and it's like he didn't take the garbage out, he didn't do the dishes, he didn't ask me how I'm feeling today. That's a big one, right? Emotion, whose art of miss all emotions. When you swallow it, then you build resentment. And in postpartum and in motherhood, you need softness and you need connection and you need support. So you you want to really make sure that you're not swallowing things that are upsetting you and you're not harboring it in, but you're effectively communicating it to your person.

Julie Pernikoff: Right. Well, it's interesting though, because you're mentioning things like the dishes. You're mentioning things like ⁓ what else did you just say now? The dishes. There's a lot of them. ⁓ w where where do you see gender roles in this and, you know, the working mother and how she's supposed to handle everything and also make her husband feel, you know, like a king in some ways, if we want to go that route. Or even just, you know, that

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: Everyone has their roles, whatever their home, how it's supposed to look. How how do you go about that?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah, so good question. I think you naturally find Okay, honey, this is your role, this is my role, right? So, like, let's say if I make dinner, I'm saying in my house during the week, right? Like if I make dinner, my husband will often do the dishes, you know, or wipe the table. Then it's like, ⁓ I can relax, like I did the dinner part. And that's really helpful because then that helps you feel even closer to them because you feel taken care of. You know, your love language all changes when you're when you're a mom. It's all about acts of service. And how can you help, right? Or sometimes I'm saying, like, you know, the garbage is really full. Can you take that? out but I think it's about creating a flow between you and your husband in this new role. as parents, right? Because very often when a husband's walking in the door, sometimes you've been home. I personally work ha I work part-time. So I'm with my baby a few days a week and then I have a nanny a few days a week. But even on the days my nanny's here, right? It's like making dinner and then doing bath and bed by the time the you know your husband comes home, you've had a work day and another few hours of with the baby. And I think it's really important to express what do I need? What do I need do I

Julie Pernikoff: Mm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: I need you first to say, how are you, honey? How was your day? Or do I need to communicate that, right? Some people are like, don't want to be asked that until there's the day needing dinner, right? So there's a lot of you have to really communicate what you need, but I do think that having different roles, like your husband is the one that takes out the garbage. Maybe I'm a little bit of a feminist, but I don't think that it has to all be on the woman, especially in motherhood when you're juggling so so much. It's very important to communicate to your husband. I need

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: need you to ask me what how can I help? Very important.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah, absolutely. I know. I think that I I think that I think that the working mom, part-time, full time, any time, or maybe honestly also not working. There there's so much challenge in terms of all the responsibilities and also just everything shifting around and figuring out those roles. I think that it's a big challenge. ⁓ and I think the communication is very important. But sometimes it's like, how do you even pick up the pieces of how to communicate some of those things. because it's it's a lot. There's l so many nitty gritty details. There's so many things. So

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's really about voicing it, like when you're feeling it. It's just it's a different level of communication. And also I want to add in, I'm sorry to go even deeper, you know, when we're talking about being dysregulated and having a hard time and being unproud, having unproud moments. Something I want to mention because it can get very heated. It's normal, it's okay. Taking breaks, coming back to conversations, because when you're sleep deprived, you may say something that you don't mean. Or

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Sure. ⁓ Mm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: When you've struck a chord or you said something really intense and your husband's reacting in in an intense way, sometimes it's about saying, okay, hold on, let's let's take a break. Let's take a break. Let's do and do something else. Take a walk, put on music, put on a TV show, go in the other room, but actively do something else because continuing that conversation when you're activated is not gonna be helpful.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. That's a very practical way to go about things. That's great. That's really helpful. Take a break. There's there's it doesn't cost you anything, right? Like, why do we have to continue in this heated moment in this way? That's great.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah. I think it's also important to say, like, not that this is a plug for therapy, but like to know that couples therapy can be very important as you transition into this new role together. And if you're not communicating effectively and you do need some help, you don't need to do it on your own.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Or even to go into your own therapy to navigate like, are my expectations normal? You know, am I, you know, I actually personally did acupuncture more recently in the past like five months. I never did it. And I felt like it really helped me rebalance my my hormones because of what happens postpartum. It's just feeling so wacky, like your whole body's out of whack. And acupuncture personally was like an amazing tool, just another tool, you know, just like therapy and acupuncture. exercise and making that iced coffee that you love in the morning, all the things you need. Acupuncture was another one that I I thought, you know, when I knew I was gonna be on this podcast was important to mention. It really helps you rebalance everything.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Wow, that is amazing. And that really that really brings me also to the point that I wanna sh mention that I want this podcast to be a place where people can find resources. ⁓ you know, just learn new things. Because I think in any stage, in every stage, and definitely also in motherhood, ⁓ certainly in motherhood, it's about gathering resources, gathering information and acupuncture is that's fascinating. That is like a conversation in itself. I I don't I don't know so many people that do it and I think that's really cool.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: It's not only gathering resources, but it's also finding your people. Right, because it really is important. You need that support. You just do. You know, it's funny, it's like almighty single years when I'd get like sign up for a meal train. I'd be like, okay, I'll like send them something. But now I'm like, I send to people I don't even like I know a little bit because I know how helpful it was for me. Like being having dinner delivered to your door for the first, I don't know, a month or two after you have a baby is so meaningful. And it's like these things that are set up are there for a reason.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: And right, it's you're very often other moms or other people, you know, that really get it and want to show up for you. So really accepting help. People really can't accept help. It was really hard for me. Talk about being single all those years and transitioning. I was like, I didn't need help. Like I got this, I'm strong. I've done, but guess what? I had a baby and I needed help. And it's okay and you're not weak to accept help.

Julie Pernikoff: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Meal train, fantastic.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: You know that you know those reels that's like, you know, I had a baby to teach me how to slow down? That's me.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm, mm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: That's me, right? Because you can like be rocking your baby about your baby just wants his mama and you're thinking, like, I have to do laundry and I have to write this note and you know, I have to reschedule this client, I have to call the psychiatrist back. And then I find myself constantly, you know, another practical tool that I love is really feeling your feet on the floor, right? Because the earth grounds you and when your mind is spiraling and these thoughts are flooding in, you need something to anchor you. So really feeling your feet, even now listening, like push your feet into the floor.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: That's grounding. And I can't even tell you guys how many times I've done this, like in my baby's rocking chair, like sitting, and my thoughts are going of like, because I'm very fast. My life in the city was like Tetris. Like I'm meeting this person, I'm going on this day, I'm going to this gym class. It was like, and then suddenly you become a mom, right? I moved to suburbia and like I use this word settled. And it's like everything just like a notch, not one, many, many notches turned down. And there's still that way that I feel like I was conditioned to thinking of like constantly doing the next thing constantly and then we have a baby it's like I find myself saying I found myself saying like right here right now right that was my mantra like right here right now this is all I need to be doing right now the laundry the dinner the psychiatrist will all be there in 15 minutes when my baby's fast asleep and I can put him down

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Mm, that's great.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: But right here, right now is all I have to do.

Julie Pernikoff: Absolutely. And those those moments of feeding are really actually really it could be any moment, honestly, with your baby that they just need you, that every that time has to stop. Everything has to stop. That's a great way to view it right here, right now. That is so special. Thank

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yeah. When you have this little we're going through like a very interesting separation anxiety, I don't know. Chat G T says it's normal.

Julie Pernikoff: Tell tell me what what tell me what you were saying?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: ⁓ we're going through a little bit of a separation anxiety situation now, my baby. And I said Chachi BT says it's normal. You know, just before even I was trying to get dinner in and he's like, Mama, Mama, Mama. And I'm like, ⁓ you know, but then I'm like, hold on. Like I this little baby needs me, right? He's like holding his arms up, Mama, Mama. He's so delicious. And I'm like, you need me. Like I need to pick him up right now. Like it's okay. Everything will go into the oven. And if not, like, you know. it's it's really just about slowing things down.

Julie Pernikoff: Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow, that is so special. Your baby is so lucky to have you. that's

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: I'm looking at him. But these these points that I'm bringing in are really They're coming from a very deep place of understanding. A lot of what I'm sharing is is from my learned experiences, you know. And there's so much more to talk about like in pregnancy, but I actually have a few clients now who are pregnant and struggling with feeling really anxious. And, you know, we talk a lot about having like a calm womb, right? Like the womb needs to be calm for the baby to be supported. And you know, it's interesting. I I always remember before I went to scams, like

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: got a little nervous and Zusha was like my I your sister Abby loves him too. Zusha like my jam. That was like my Nishema music. And now I'll play certain songs and I feel like he remembers it. Because music is very important for me. Also like when I feel like it's chaotic here or he's like struggling and he's screaming and I put on music and it shifts the whole energy. Not that it becomes calm or

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: like that. But I am calm, right? Like it all starts with the mom. Like them, we are the energy source of the home for our husband, for our children. They look to us as what is the energy here. And I notice that my baby Rafael knows like he he I feel like it's like he remembers some of the music.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that it's true, by the way. I think it's a thing. I mean, I'm I'm gonna ask ChatGPT afterwards, but I'm pretty sure that is really true. I think that they do remember it.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: I don't know it's a chat to be tea because I think it's like a Nishama thing, you know? I think they their souls absorbed it and then they they're in this world and they they remember it. But that's a really big part also in motherhood is like what are the things that anchor you? What are the things that you need?

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Yeah. I think I think also that was that was something as as our our as our last point that I really wanted to also like end off with you on that you you mentioned the word when we were you know talking going back and forth by email, WhatsApp, what we're gonna talk about. You mentioned the word soften. So I think just to end off with that, you know, tell me what you think about that. What can you impart to our moms and women ⁓ about softening, softening themselves?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Softening, softening is a is a big one because you know I always tell my clients, like when we're tight, I don't know if they'll be able to see this, but I'm kind of like, imagine that you're just like cramping up, right? Like you're making a fist, you're bringing your shoulders up to your ears, everything is super, super tight, right? And then you take a deep breath in your nose, exhale through your mouth, and suddenly you release your shoulders, you release the fist, and you soften, right? The reason why. We need to soften is because that's a way to access your best self. When we're tight, did he dinner? Did he poop today? Did he pee? Where's the ⁓ my god? Then the whole energy, right? The baby picks up on your energy, your husband picks up on your energy, and it's chaos. It's total chaos. When you soften, right? And sometimes I actually have to notice like, when am I making a fist or when do my shoulders feel tight? And like I actively like, whew.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: I actively kind of like release it. Yeah, like me it out because that's how you notice like okay, I'm going into that tight place. I'm getting anxious or I'm getting rigid or I'm getting obsessive. Like when do I need to soften? Because when I soften, my environment softens. And that's a really big piece, I think, as well, you know, even that other tool I gave of like feeling your feet on the ground and taking a breath. You know, I think there's a lot of moments in becoming a mom.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: that are tight. There's a lot of very normal anxiety. There's a lot of it. And when you sop in and when you take a deep breath and you remind yourself you're gonna figure it out. You know, I remember my mom, I'm my mom's a very special person. I remember she would always say, You got this, you're figuring it out. In the moment I was like, ⁓ my god, no, I don't. But now looking back, her words were so meaningful because it really was like empowering. That's that's what builds, right? Like when I work with clients struggling to low self-esteem, when I empower them from within, right, when they show

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: up differently or when they've mastered something or they did something hard, that's really very encouraging. And I remember my mom saying things like that. And that would also help me soften, right? Like you've got this. Like you don't feel like you've got this, right? It's new, it's it's scary. But when you remind yourself that you could soften and you're gonna figure it out. That's everything.

Julie Pernikoff: Wow. Wow. Thank you so much. That was fantastic. That was that was beautiful. Your mom sounds amazing. ⁓ I would love to. I would love to. Maybe I'll maybe I'll get her one day. Thank you so much, Ariella. This was amazing. It was so great to be able to have you as our first ⁓ podcast guest. And we're so lucky to have you here. If people would like to find you, if they want to reach out to you as a resource.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: She'd have her on. She would she would never come on.

Julie Pernikoff: 'cause you're amazing, how can they do that?

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Yes, yes. ⁓ yes, you can find me. I have a pretty active Instagram. I try. It's A-R-I-E-L-L-A A-Z-A-R-A-F-L-C-S-W. and it's that same name at gmail.com or arielazflcsw.com is my website. And I would love to hear feedback and I'd love to connect with with other moms and support you in your journey as well. And thank you. Julie, thank you for this space. Thank you for having me as your first guest. I'm so glad we talked about all these things, and I hope that it lands in some of your hearts and you feel understood and validated. And ⁓ we're all in this beautiful and confusing journey together.

Julie Pernikoff: I mean, I mean absolutely. And I'm gonna also make sure to, you know, link everything and put all your information in writing with the episode as well. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Have a great, great day.

Ariella (Azaraf) Schur: Thank you. Thank you, Julie.