Birth Positive with Lauren Seidman: A Conversation About Informed Choices & Empowered Birth

Julie Pernikoff: Hi Lauren Seidman and welcome to Into Motherhood. It's so great to have you.

Lauren Seidman: Thanks so much for having me. It's so nice to be here.

Julie Pernikoff: My pleasure. so I'm gonna read your bio. Lauren is a certified childbirth educator and doula and a mom to five. She helps expecting parents gain confidence in their ability to birth their baby through birthing classes and individualized support. Understanding that there's typically so much fear and confusion surrounding the birth process, Lauren helps families address their fears, have their questions answered, and understand their options so they can set themselves up for as positive of a birth experience as possible. Lauren's nuanced and fact based approach helps each individual decide what a positive birth experience would look like for them and to be savvy about the medical system so they can retain their voice and control throughout the process. so talk to me about your work and and what your path was to get here.

Lauren Seidman: Sure, I'm happy to share perhaps a Cliff Notes version of the story. so like you said, I am a birth educator. I'm also certified as a doula. My background was not in any of this stuff. I mean, that is really the truth. I went to college thinking that... I was gonna be a lawyer and go to law school And I actually did take my LSATs, but I never went to law school. I worked for a consulting firm for six years in the HR consulting space. I liked my job. I liked the people I worked with. It was interesting. It was like a cool thing to have on my resume and my LinkedIn profile. But once I started having my own kids, I was just like, I'm so addicted to birth and I'm not really sure what to do about it. Like people at work would tell me like their birth stories. Like I remember what my manager like was planning a VBAC and she was telling me about it and I just like couldn't get enough. yeah,

Julie Pernikoff: my gosh.

Lauren Seidman: so, and this is going back like this is a while ago at this point. So when my second child was one, I decided ultimately to leave my job, not really to become a birth educator, really just because I wanted to focus more on my family. My job was very demanding and I had two under two at the time. And I felt like, okay, I need to take a break from this whole intense corporate lifestyle. I'm gonna be home with my kids, maybe on the side, I'll like be a birth educator. And that's what I honestly like, that's basically what I ended up doing. I just took a training and I started, I basically was like the unofficial birth educator for all my friends and then I decided to be legit about it. And that's kind of what got me here. So that was in 2018, I started and whatever, I've definitely like evolved and grown over the years and I just, it just like lights up my soul. So I just feel like I'm doing what I'm meant to be doing and it really helps people, you know? So that's kind of how I got here.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Where did you get certified? Just so people understand your background in terms of that.

Lauren Seidman: Yeah, so I got right. So I said, I did do a number of trainings throughout the years. I got certified through Lamaze. I'm still a certified Lamaze childbirth educator. And I did my doula training with Doula Trainings International. I'm also body ready method certified. Yeah, those are like the main ones that I've done. So everything

Julie Pernikoff: Awesome.

Lauren Seidman: like builds on itself, you know.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: That's great. Okay. Thank you for sharing that. I think that's really helpful. And as people like inform themselves and get to know the birth world, they'll understand if they don't know already, they'll understand like each one of those certifications are very important. that's awesome.

Lauren Seidman: Right. And the thing I want to say is like the certification, I'm happy that I'm certified because I feel like it gives me legitimacy and there are a lot of resources, especially like Lamaze does provide a lot of resources for their educators and so does Body Ready Method.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: But I think that like what I do is so much more than just like I have this title. It's really like helping people through. one of the most, if not the most transformational experiences of their life.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: And I really feel like, yes, I took the trainings and yes, I learned a lot, but I really just learned so much through working with expecting families and seeing like, I think at the end of the day, like the main thing I've learned is like, forget all the facts and information that I help people learn about, but it's really just like honoring this experience. was like a life experience. And I think that's the biggest takeaway for me that a certification can't really, you know, didn't really give me necessarily. Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: No, that's amazing. It sounds like you have like a real life force in you for this work and it's awesome. I'm excited to like get into things more so

Lauren Seidman: Me too.

Julie Pernikoff: just and just so people understand the structure of what you offer is what? Like in a sentence, I guess like classes, one group, yeah.

Lauren Seidman: Sure. Yeah. So I have an online childbirth course that anyone can access anytime, anywhere. And with that, I will offer a couple of times a year, like a group coaching program to go along with it. You could also set up one-on-one sessions with me. then I also, based on availability, I also do in-person classes privately, locally, if you're in the five towns or willing to travel.

Julie Pernikoff: It's clear you have such a passion for things. what do you want your clients to walk away with?

Lauren Seidman: So like I mentioned, I have a course I could teach you, you you can learn online, you can learn in person. There's different ways to get the education and the information, right? who comes to take a class with me, what I really like at the end of the day, what I want them to take away is the idea that they have options and that they have power throughout the process. I find that a lot of times when people are... preparing for their birth or thinking about their birth, they don't know that they have options around different things that can happen. Even something as simple as like a third trimester growth scan. Like I hear so many people getting that, right? There's options around that. There's options around ultrasounds during pregnancy, right? At the end of pregnancy, you know, when you're offered a cervical exam at 36 weeks, like, the amount of people that are in my class that don't even know that they have the option to say yes or no to that is a lot. Like people just don't know that they have options around those things. And then those are, you know, quote unquote small, but then you talk about bigger things like, well, do I want to say yes to the induction that my doctor is recommending? Right? Do I want to say yes to an IV in the hospital? And like my take on that. on all of these things is I am not going to be the one to tell you what to do. So someone who takes a class with me is going to be someone who wants to be thoughtful about their decisions, who wants to take ownership, but they might not necessarily know that that's even like an option for them. So I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I will help you understand that you have a choice. What are the pros and cons of the different choices? Because I find that when people know that they have options and they understand their yeses and their nos, no matter, it's a little bit oversimplified to say it this way, but I'll just say it this way. And then we could expand if you want to, like, no

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: matter how the birth goes, they are more likely to feel. better about the experience, right? We're not saying that if you make this choice on your birth is gonna go perfectly, but what I am saying is that if you understand what's happening along the way, then you're less likely to feel traumatized by your birth. You're more likely to feel empowered by your birth than someone who said, this was just happening to me. I was on a train and I couldn't get off. That's the feeling that I try to prevent when someone takes a

Julie Pernikoff: Mm. Wow.

Lauren Seidman: class with me That was part of what got me into this work was I started hearing, like I went to a new mom's group after I had my first baby and I heard people's birth stories and my jaw was on the floor. I was just like, I just intuitively thought like, this isn't okay. Like this is, there was some wild stories in there, you know, just, and then over time just hearing people like, I didn't know I had a choice. This just happened and this happened and this happened and this happened and they told me, you know, I need a C-section or, you know, I need to get induced. That's what happened to me. My doctor is like, you need to get induced. And I'm just like, what? I don't even know what an induction is. I don't even know what that is. So yeah, I guess that's really like the goal is that people know that they have options at every single point and that they are legally and ethically the person who makes the decisions during their birth. So that's, yeah,

Julie Pernikoff: So good.

Lauren Seidman: that's like a big focus for me. Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: So amazing.

Lauren Seidman: I know that that's like very intense and like that even like saying all that might even be like a level that someone's listening. They're like, well, I didn't even like that never even occurred to me at all. The other part of what I try to focus on is is helping people gain confidence in their body to birth their baby. Right. So many people are afraid of birth. How painful it's going to be, how terrible it's going to be. We all hear like horror, terrible birth stories. You're pregnant. You're like a magnet for unsolicited advice and opinions and traumatic birth stories. So the other thing that I try to do is really help people see like birth could be really positive. Like it has the power to be a positive experience and you can have tools to cope with labor and it doesn't have to be terrible. So that's also like another just important fact that I wanted to add in that's maybe

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: like a little bit more like accessible for people.

Julie Pernikoff: I totally hear what you're saying. if you don't know so much about it yet. it's a whole language. Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: Right, feel like step one is addressing fears and then step two is knowing you have options.

Julie Pernikoff: do you think that birth is more of an industry or an experience,

Lauren Seidman: do mean like birth education or do you mean like the actual birth itself? Like.

Julie Pernikoff: No, I think I think the birth itself,

Lauren Seidman: things are, like what the landscape is in terms of like what birth can look like.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. However you wanna answer really, honestly. Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: yeah, it's not even my opinion. Like you can look at the statistics and it's in the data that birth has become, especially in the United States, birth has shifted much more towards like a medicalized, you know, process. Like inductions are up, C-sections are up. The use of Pitocin is up. So Pitocin is a medicine that makes contractions stronger. in anyone doesn't know what that is. So I think, so just looking at the research, we see that there are more interventions, more medical interventions being done in the birth process than let's say even, you know, 30 years ago. So that's definitely something that's a trend. And I think that what's happened is that generationally, think there used to be much more like, let's say like when I was being born, right? Like my mom's generation was very much like, you do like your doctor says this, like this is what you do. And

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm.

Lauren Seidman: I think that with this shift towards like the over medicalization, people are starting to realize like, wait a second, is medicalizing every single birth really the best thing for women? And I think people are starting to realize like they're maybe trying to like pull back their reins a little bit. So obviously I think it's very important to be with a... care provider, like an OB or a midwife that you trust and you want to work together with them. but I think there's been a shift from like, just listen blindly to whatever your medical provider is telling you to ask questions and get answers and try and have a more individualized experience, have a more, like, I have a lot of clients coming to me saying like, they want to quote as natural of birth as possible. Now for some people that might mean an unbirthed without an epidural, but for some people that just means they don't want interventions that they don't necessarily need, even if they want an epidural. So. I definitely see like a shift in that.

Julie Pernikoff: it's so nuanced what each person even means when they say that. Like not as many interventions, but they still might want an evidere all, but they also want to have autonomy.

Lauren Seidman: Yeah. Well, yeah. right. Autonomy is the right word. Like people, you I think that there is a shift from I'm giving over my power to someone else to tell me what to do to a shift in I want to have power and autonomy over this process and not give that away. And so I think that's really cool, you know, for people that

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: are in that camp. There definitely are still people who are just scared. And I understand that. And it feels safer to give your power away to your OB and like just just tell me what to do. Like I see that. You know, lot, like just tell me what to do. just want someone else tell me what to do. but at the end of the day, it's, it might feel easier in the moment, but it's not necessarily best for long-term to give your power away like that. It is it is scary to take ownership of this experience like that. And that's where I feel like the education comes in where because if you're going into your birth saying like, I am so scared. How in the world is this baby going to come out of my body? the hardest thing is like when you're approaching your due date or past your due date. I am in the passing due date club many times over. Like, when is this baby going to come? Like the anxiety of like Is my body going to go on sleeper? You know, how is this going to go? And then when someone offers you something like an induction and like a scheduled date and tells you, you you can have your baby on this day, like it feels really relieving to know like when it's going to happen. But

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: the flip side of that is, you know, you really change your whole experience. So what I was saying is like, that's where I feel like the education comes into play because if you then you really understand, well, like, what's the range of normal, right? Okay, if I understand that it's normal to have my BB anytime between, you know, 37 to 42 weeks, then I'm not freaking out when I'm 39 weeks. Like, you might still be, but you also can have that logical in the back of your head of like, I know that this is normal, or like, labor's taking a long time. It's normal for birth to take a long time sometimes, you know? that's where the education piece comes in. It's like, okay, well, Yeah. that's, I don't know, I feel like I'm getting off on a tangent, but.

Julie Pernikoff: No, I think that you don't know what you don't know. And I think that

Lauren Seidman: Exactly.

Julie Pernikoff: it's very powerful for people to learn from you things that they didn't know. But sometimes exactly

Lauren Seidman: Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: what you said earlier is such a great point though, that like sometimes you aren't even ready necessarily to hear certain things and you don't even realize that like it's a lot of learning. It's a huge learning curve. Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: a lot of learning. One thing I want to say also is that like it might sound really overwhelming to be like, I need to know, I like, I need to know this, I need to know this. And I think one thing that came to mind when you were saying like about the birth industry, like I was thinking about all the, like there is a real industry around parenting and like products and you know, books,

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: toys. for your kid, for your baby, that whole industry, you want, parenting industry, right? And I would say birthing things fall underneath that. What I was thinking when you, that's what came to mind when you were talking about the birth industry. I think nowadays it's very easy for people to find information. You can go on Instagram, you can go on TikTok, you can listen to podcasts, there's a million books, there's a million websites, email lists. The problem is not getting more finding information, right? It's the problem that people have is not getting the information. It's making sense of it and how to understand it. So like I had a client who took a class with me the first time around. She was like, I want to do the class again for my second BB. And she's I'm like, why? She's like, I forgot a lot of things. I was like, you're not taking a class again. The class is not isn't it. It's not necessarily about remembering all the facts and like taking a test at the end. The foundation of doing this childbirth education is that you can understand all the information that's coming at you with the foundation of birth as a normal healthy process. Like that's to me, like that's the most important thing is like you take away that from the education, whether you do a class with me or someone else, like the takeaway really should be that This is a normal healthy process. It's a physiological process, if you want to use fancy word. It's aligned with how the human body was designed to function. And so if you can come to a point where you understand that as the baseline, then everything else layered on top of that starts to make sense, right? Like if you're understanding, baby is inside, baby is growing, hormonal triggers happen in the body, that starts labor, baby comes out. Right? Sounds so easy. But then you can really understand, okay, so then what is the cervical check at 36 weeks actually going to tell me?

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Lauren Seidman: I mean, I don't know, nothing really. That's my opinion. You don't need to get it, but you can choose to get it. I'm saying you can get it with the understanding of it's not gonna predict when labor begins. It's just a point in time assessment or like an induction. Okay, so understanding how that plays in. If birth is a normal, healthy process, let's say you need an induction for a medical reason, right? So how can we have the induction work as well with the physiological process instead of like, overriding it. Right? So

Julie Pernikoff: Mm, yeah.

Lauren Seidman: I feel like that's like the nuance that I think is very important. And so for for someone who's like, taking one minute reels worth of information from Instagram, you're not gonna, you're not gonna get that. So I think it's just really important for people to like, understand have that foundation so that whatever you're taking in now, you can like make sense of it instead of just like overloading your brain with like more and more fat.

Julie Pernikoff: so talk to us about choosing a healthcare provider because everything you're saying is great, but sometimes it ha is gonna not jive with who you're working with. And that's in any that's in any medical field. so talk talk to us. I

Lauren Seidman: Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: I know you have a lot to say about choosing healthcare providers. I think you have like a specific training on it

Lauren Seidman: I have a yeah, I have a free webinar called choosing the OB that's right for you. So we could definitely

Julie Pernikoff: Yes.

Lauren Seidman: link that if you want. Because I really think that no, I'm so glad you're bringing this up because I can teach childbirth education and talk about informed choice and autonomy from today till tomorrow. But if you are with a provider who doesn't share that philosophy, your choices are gonna be limited to what they feel is appropriate. And I really, the reason why I created that class is because I feel like that is like the most important decision that you can make in your pregnancy because it influences how things go so much. think a lot of times people have this misconception that my birth is gonna go the way it's gonna go no matter what doctor I'm with. no matter what hospital I'm birthing in, it's just luck of the draw. It's just gonna go the way it's gonna go. And obviously, Hashem is in charge and things are gonna go a certain way. But there are things that are within your control, that are within your, know, Hishdadlis, your effort to put in. And one of those things is choosing a doctor or a midwife that is aligned with you and aligned with your goals. It's so important. I'll give you an example. So I mentioned my first birth. I was pregnant with my son, perfectly healthy pregnancy, thank God. And then at the end of my pregnancy, my doctor informed me that her recommendation was really her, like, this is how we're gonna do things, was induction at 41 weeks, if you don't go in sleep by then. And I had my doula. Thank God I had a doula who was like trying to coach me through it and trying to tell me I had options. But at that point, it was too late. Like it was just, I technically had the option to say, no, I don't want to get induced. But the pressure I felt to say yes to her and the stress that I felt of going against her recommendation was just so much higher than my ability to decline it. to decline. I, and I see that for people, like I experienced that and I see that time and time again. If you're with a doc, this, you are a normal mother who wants to do what is safest for her baby. And if your doctor is telling you at 41 weeks, it's safest to induce, you are very vulnerable and you're gonna 99.9 % of the time, you're gonna say yes. And if you don't, it's a real uphill battle. And so what I want people to do is avoid getting into that uphill battle type of situation because who wants to do that? And your best bet is to be with a doctor who says something like, listen, I recommend, let's say the same 41 week induction, I recommend induction of 41 weeks, but really at the end of the day, it's up to you and I support you with whatever you choose. Here are the benefits of inducing now. Here are some of the risks of inducing now. Here are the benefits of waiting for spontaneous labor. Here are some of the possible risks that could come up with waiting for spontaneous labor. You choose. ask me how many providers actually engage in that conversation? Not many. Very few. Like

Julie Pernikoff: How many people for that? my gosh. Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: basically none. And so that's why also like the education is helpful so that you can, you learn yourself what are the benefits and risks of both sides of the coin. But if you're with a doctor who let's say, does honor your legal and ethical rights who informed consent, meaning you have the right to say yes or no to what they're saying, it's gonna be much less stressful for you. So I always tell people, I recommend people looking for a provider who has a bigger box of what they consider to be within the realm of normal, not a very small box, meaning everyone needs to go into labor by 41 weeks or else. Okay, so some people go into labor at 42 weeks and they expand the box a little bit. because it's gonna make it a lot less stressful and it'll help you avoid that uphill battle. Just to add one more thing to that, I just had my fifth baby, thank God she just turned six months. And I went to 42 weeks with her and I was working with a midwife who she said she supported my choice to wait. And she kind of did have that conversation with me about like... But she knows I know, because obviously, like, I'm a birth professional. But she was just like, listen, like, there are benefits to, you know, getting things going before 42 weeks, but it's up to you. And I felt it made me just feel not going to say it wasn't stressful. It was extremely stressful waiting till 42 weeks. But I didn't have that stress of my providers putting this pressure on me. I guess that's what I want to say. So I

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: think it's really important for people to be with a provider who shares their philosophy around birth. If you feel If you've done your research and you feel safest with proactive management of your labor, know, more intervention that truly feels safest to you, then you don't want to be with my midwife who's waiting till 42 weeks. That's gonna stress you out. You wanna be with the provider who's aligned with you about that, who's more medical minded, so to speak. But if you're like, I really want things to unfold on their own time, I want as natural of a birth as possible. I wanna lower interventions. Then choose a provider who's normal, way of doing things is to have lower interventions, right? Don't choose a provider who's more medical if you want a more natural birth. So I

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm.

Lauren Seidman: think that's super importantly, look for the philosophy of the provider that you're choosing and make sure that it aligns with you. Now feel

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm.

Lauren Seidman: like you're going to ask how in the world do you find out what their philosophy is. So a little hard to find out, because like they're not necessarily gonna like advertise it right so you're gonna have to like a little bit of legwork to find out ask people ask around ask friends ask people in your community who have a similar philosophy to you when I was pregnant with my second child I knew I wanted to switch because like I said my first provider I didn't feel like we were aligned I asked my other crunchy birth friend who do you use for your OB were you happy what was your experience like and I And I knew we're like philosophically aligned about birth. And that's why I ended up going with. And I did, my second and third children were born with that practice and I was really, really happy. So I think finding someone, like not just getting recommendations from random people, not just going to who everyone uses because that's who everyone uses.

Julie Pernikoff: That's what I was gonna ask you, is how do you how do you coach people on handling that? Because we are in a a tight knit, thank God, very nice from community, you know, that spans the states, but still like

Lauren Seidman: Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: especially in the tri-state area, people can travel to each other's doctors within New York, New Jersey, whatever it is. How

Lauren Seidman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Pernikoff: do you coach people on knowing the difference between what is aligned with them and what is not?

Lauren Seidman: terms of like everyone using like the same small list of doctors, you know, there are differences in those practices. I think, like I said, I think it's important to really get recommendations from people who you feel are similar to you, who had the type of birth that you wanna have.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm.

Lauren Seidman: And... And also like keeping in mind that sometimes people might get lucky even if that's not the typical way that that practice practices birth. But like you wanna kind of find out people who had experiences that were like a little bit more spicy than like the, if someone has like a very straightforward birth, like that person probably would be fine no matter where they are. know, but you don't

Julie Pernikoff: Okay.

Lauren Seidman: know going in that you're gonna have a straightforward birth. If you go into labor science, like on your own, you know, before your due date or on your due date, you know, very close to your due date and like things progress and like you don't push for a long time, like Hashem just loves you. Like that, you know, like you probably would just be fine anywhere. And that's great. And I love that for people who that's their birth experience. But if you're really researching doctors, and that's the experience that that person making the recommendation had, you want to ask other people also, like, what about your friend who pushed for three plus hours? What was that like? What about your friend who got induced? What about, you know what I mean? Like things that are like pushing for three plus hours, like you want to know how the doctor handled that because some doctors will say automatic c-section. Some doctors will give you time and not put any pressure on you whatsoever. You want to, you want to find that out.

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lauren Seidman: So people who had like a spicier experiences or like a really long induction, know, like I know people who have had three day long inductions. How was that? How was their doctor through that experience? you know, also asking people who are like, if this is something that's accessible to you, asking people who are in the birth world that. are either layman delivery nurses that you're friends with or PAs or even, know, OBs if you have, you if you're friends with any OBs, doulas, like asking doulas. Cause like we, the thing about being a doula is that we've seen different practices in action and different hospitals. And so that's like a benefit of speaking, like if you end up hiring a doula or doing a session or whatever it is, like we can get kind of give you that like perspective. because we've just seen different options

Julie Pernikoff: Do you find that women are coming to you after their first birth? Or are they coming to you like when do they learn the language that you're speaking?

Lauren Seidman: It really depends. I definitely work with people who are like across the spectrum of meeting people who come to me and they're like, I don't know anything. I want you to teach me and just explain it to me. And also I teach couples so they're like, my husband doesn't know anything and I want him to know, he wants to know. So we're doing a class with you because we feel like we don't know anything and like we want to learn. So there's people like that. And I love that. because they're just like open and curious and that's like and also the husband thing. I mean we could have a whole conversation about that but like really like husbands unless they take a birth class they're not getting this information the same way you are their Instagram algorithm is not giving them the birth account. So like please just have

Julie Pernikoff: Is not the same. I know I'm thinking that.

Lauren Seidman: your husband take a class with you he will be happy about it and you will too. Okay that's my that's my Ted talk on husband seeing us. So people like that and then there's then there's people who have like let's say seen all the things on social media or spoken to friends or all their sisters had traumatic births and they don't want that or all their sisters had beautiful natural births and they want that too. I definitely have people who know a little bit more and I think those are first time parents who know a bit more, kind of know what they want going in. They just want someone to help them fill in the details. And then you go to like people who have already given birth and now they're preparing for a subsequent birth. So I feel like those, like those parents, just by virtue of the fact that they're experienced, they've gone through it. I think they get it more because they've experienced it, whether it's something that, you know, like. you know, like what I went through, whether they had your birth and you're like, wait, I wish I would have known X, Y, and Z. Or, you know, I didn't choose, I really, I really wasn't aligned with my doctor. want something different. Or I feel like I, yeah, I don't know. I feel like I could have done more before my first birth. want something else this time. Like I'm thinking of someone who I worked with, who, you know, she went into her first birth and was like, I like to say like putting all the eggs in the epidural basket, right? Like being gay on the epidural is like, that was gonna be her coping tool. And it didn't work. And it ended up opening the door to other interventions. And she felt like she was on that train and she couldn't get off of it. And then for the second time around, she came to me and she's like, I just really need to have an unmedicated birth this time. I'm like not going near the epidural, right? So I see that a lot where people like, think it's gonna go one way and then it doesn't. And then they realize like they need to do more to prepare. So, and then they like get it more. And that was like me also. Like I don't fault anyone for like not knowing it before their first. Like it's so new and every it's so much and you don't know what you're gonna need to know going in. I don't fault anyone for not knowing what they didn't know because how could you do that? And you shouldn't fault yourself either, right? And there's some things that you couldn't even, even if I told them to you, you wouldn't even have like the space in your brain to take in the information. So I

Julie Pernikoff: Mm-hmm.

Lauren Seidman: don't fault anyone for that. So yeah, so then sometimes people figured out on the second time around. I mean, that's what happened to me. Like I was like, okay, my first birth was, it was fine, but I really had much more positive experiences once I learned. what I needed to have the positive experience and like the subsequent births were definitely much better.

Julie Pernikoff: this was just like an unreal peek into what you do, how you think, how you go about things. I think we should definitely have another part

Lauren Seidman: I can talk about this all the time.

Julie Pernikoff: where can people

Lauren Seidman: Thanks so much, Julie. Yeah, I feel like we

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah, of course.

Lauren Seidman: kind of like just started scratching. Well, no, we went deeper than the surface, but I feel like

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: there's one, two. This is what happens to me also when people take a class with me. Like, like, let's say someone signs up for a three hour class and they're like, three hour class, that's so long. my goodness. And then by the time three hours is over, they're like, my gosh, that was so much more than I thought we were going to do. Like, is there a part two? You know, and I do offer a part two also, but I'm just saying like something that you don't realize. what there is to know until you know it. And like, start peeling the layers of onions. I feel like that was this conversation.

Julie Pernikoff: So and we'll link everything in the, you know, in the notes for the for this podcast. But I would love to get into more,

Lauren Seidman: Perfect.

Julie Pernikoff: you know, about your own birth experiences and

Lauren Seidman: Yeah,

Julie Pernikoff: Just helping people deal with maybe outcomes that are I guess on one foot.

Lauren Seidman: When your dress doesn't go the way you planned. No, that's like, that is it's really hard.

Julie Pernikoff: can't no. Yeah.

Lauren Seidman: you know, I try to just hold space for people because I understand that it's the birth is high, it's high stakes. It's not just it's not just getting the baby from the inside to the outside, like the process matters. you know, it really does. And so when it doesn't go the way you want, that is a real loss. And it is there is a lot of grief around that. And also when it can like impact, you know, future options, like if you have a C-section and like now you're a V-back and it gets a little bit more complicated. So I just try to do my best to, you know, hold space for that. And when necessary, I will refer people to individuals who are trained specifically in like birth processing and therapists and things like that because that's not within my scope of practice. And I obviously want people to get the support that they need. So yeah, that's kind of, that's on one foot But you were asking how people can, you know, I think so like how to be in touch.

Julie Pernikoff: Yeah, how to find

Lauren Seidman: so you can find me on Instagram. Like I said, my baby's, you know, still little. I'm a little slow right now on Instagram, but God willing, I'm gonna, I need to get back into things, but it's birth underscore positive. On Instagram, can send me an email also at lauren at bbirthpositive.com. That would be the best place to be in touch. Yeah. Thanks so much, Julie. This was lovely.

Julie Pernikoff: Awesome. Awesome. And your my my absolute your and your podcast itself also is called

Lauren Seidman: yeah, my podcast, the birth positive podcast.

Julie Pernikoff: The Birth Positive Podcast. Yes. Thank you for being here.

Lauren Seidman: I'm glad we made

Julie Pernikoff: Thanks for this.

Lauren Seidman: it happen. And it's important information that people need to hear. So thank you for giving a platform for people to hear,

Julie Pernikoff: My pleasure.